Is the 8 inch travel DH bike Dead?
- Thread starter daisycutter
- Start date
Everyone's gonna be pissed (and mine will probably always be 26") but I think the 29 wheel will take over DH bikes. 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but It seems like WC tracks aren't as tight as years past, which is the main place I see larger wheels being a detriment. Otherwise with good geometry, suspension and light/stiff wheels, it seems like monster truck-ability of big wheels could be advantageous?
I'm not sure the travel would be reduced though?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but It seems like WC tracks aren't as tight as years past, which is the main place I see larger wheels being a detriment. Otherwise with good geometry, suspension and light/stiff wheels, it seems like monster truck-ability of big wheels could be advantageous?
I'm not sure the travel would be reduced though?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think him and a few other guys got beat pretty handily by 8" DH bikes at the U.S. Champs at Mammoth?
Okay my experience is pretty much limited to Bromont and that "World Cup" trail is pretty old by today's standards, but even then, all the other trails on that hill are nothing like it. And I've ridden both my trail and downhill bike there. While doable on the smaller bike, I have no intention of ever doing it again.
All y'all can start selling the bike bikes and I'll buy a nice one used off some dentist
All y'all can start selling the bike bikes and I'll buy a nice one used off some dentist
As usual, it all comes down to what does the industry want. If they put enough money/pressure on UCI, tracks will change to acommodate bigger wheels and shorter travel bikes.
Reminds me of the comments on Uncle Dave's post on the Scott 27.5+ demo event, or the ones on PB over the electric assisted suspenions. Some guys were saying they would give those things a go once they saw somebody win a WC on them.
Reminds me of the comments on Uncle Dave's post on the Scott 27.5+ demo event, or the ones on PB over the electric assisted suspenions. Some guys were saying they would give those things a go once they saw somebody win a WC on them.
who care what they say? I'll ride my 8inch 26er on my favorite trails and love it!
just look at wheel size at the big bike parks. Morzine, Whistler ..... and see for your self. real riders ride 26.
27 or 29 DH bikes are made for just pictures in bike forums
just look at wheel size at the big bike parks. Morzine, Whistler ..... and see for your self. real riders ride 26.
27 or 29 DH bikes are made for just pictures in bike forums
I think that bike has 160mm of travel, or those are the rumors.
Regardless, even though I'm the biggest 29er fan on RM, 26 is the wheelsize for the 99% for DH. Robust, easy to find spares, you don't have to true every 5 minutes....there's a lot of reasons to love it for the amateur. On the WC circuit, 29 may be soon, but the pros will only run stuff A) the manufacturers think they can sell or B) will give them a significant edge over the competition....so I'm doubtful we'll see it any time soon.
Regardless, even though I'm the biggest 29er fan on RM, 26 is the wheelsize for the 99% for DH. Robust, easy to find spares, you don't have to true every 5 minutes....there's a lot of reasons to love it for the amateur. On the WC circuit, 29 may be soon, but the pros will only run stuff A) the manufacturers think they can sell or B) will give them a significant edge over the competition....so I'm doubtful we'll see it any time soon.
C) they will petition UCI to ban 29ers for DH racing because it doesn't make them look moto enough.
Happened with skinsuits....just sayin...
Interesting to hear you of all people say that, having a lot of bikes with big hoops. I've noticed huge amounts of flex in most 650b wheelsets, and often I can watch them squirming around on the rider in front of me. Wider flange spacing while keeping zero-dish will help, but I have a pet hate for hubs that increase flange spacing while sacrificing the zero-dish, the latter is way more crucial to wheel longevity. Maybe the 7spd freehub will help sort it out without new frame standards.
I'm an avid fan of the Alex Supra D in 26", and it took years to find a rim that was light, strong (dent and flatspot resistant), and held tyres well when out of shape (something the EX721 and some other mavics fail spectacularly at). Is there a genuinely comparable option in 650b yet? Stans Flow is not comparable in strength (nor does putting it on your DH bike make it a proper DH rim) so that's not the answer, but perhaps there is something else - DT? Spank?
I am the anti 29'er, but I see Trek coming out with a 29'er DH in the future. Why? Well if we have 26, 26+, 27.5, 27.5+, 29, 29+ and some asshole bringing up the topic "Are there any 29'er DH bikes?" every 6 months, someone may as well make one to shut them up. As always, it gets people talking. With enduro becoming so popular, I think DH is kinda in a downfall. I can see the WC organizers putting in a smoother, more pedally course in the future to pull off some publicity stunt where the racers will want a 29" 5"travel bike. Picture the UCI telling the trail builder to make it that way. The teams see the pics and think it will be better on a pedal friendly bike. (wasn't there a course like this a couple years ago where they opted for an AM setup?) All of a sudden the Internet explodes with the whole "29'er wins the DH World Cup race!!!"... I see it in the future, but it won't be the end-all, be-all of bikes. 27.5 is what all the companies jumped on. If anyone will come out with a 29" DH bike, it will be Trek and Special-ed at the same time.
If anything, I think 26+ or 27.5+ would be something good to consider???
If anything, I think 26+ or 27.5+ would be something good to consider???
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Again, that's my opinion for the amateur. I think 29" can hold an edge at the highest level of competition under the right rider. Those tall guys like Minaar have a natural advantage, and can take easier advantage of longer chainstays, so why not get wheels that are less susceptible to getting hung up? I like to see 29ers being competed on, just because I love seeing the technology of the sport being pushed to the very limit.
That doesn't make it a great idea for you or I though. I jumped at the opportunity to buy a 26er DH bike because I can see having it until the end of time. I can easily swap rims, build up a pile of tires, find older forks for it. I don't think AMs can really take advantage of the cutting edge stuff. I certainly don't need adjustable hi and low speed compression on my fork and shock, but I'm a tinkerer who likes messing with stuff. And 650b is one of those things. It's a marginal improvement over what's already out there, but it would require entirely new components for 75% of the bike.
As for wheel strength, I think it's going to take a holistic approach noting the current constraints (150mm, let's be real, rotor spacing, and wheel diameter) then thinking about where you can sacrifice stuff. Making wider hub flanges and eating up some cassette space shouldn't be a problem. Maybe it'll take re-inventing the disk spacing to get more room on that side. I certainly don't know, but I don't think the answer is narrower chain spacing with the same number of gears and a spacer, nor is it found in boost!
Why did Santa Cruz specifically state on their website that they tried to keep the chainstay lengths as close to the 26" v-10 as possible when they went to bigger wheelsizes then? Especially knowing all their WC riders are like 7 feet tall?
As for the 650b thing, both of my bikes this season went from 26-650b, I still have yet to realize any real noticeable advantage on either of them. I just FINALLY beat my PR on a local loop I ride about 3-4 times a week on my lunch break yesterday, one that I set on a slightly longer travel trail bike with 26" wheels last Season. (Stumpjumper fsr vs SC 5010). I set it early in the season last year when I wasn't exactly "superfit" either. According to my dork tracker (strava) I've been slower on nearly every trail around. One would think where I live that a lighter bike with less travel and a larger wheel would be far more efficient, but that is NOT proving to be the case. Maybe our trails just aren't wide open enough to take advantage of the bigger wheel? I'm not sure, we've got a lot of variety (all out speedways and tight and twisty trails)
@Udi I run the DT swiss FR570, it seems to be holding up well, but the amount of flex I can see just pushing on my bike in the lift line compared to my 26" wheelset from last year is extremely noticeable.
As for the rims, they hold a tire very well (just ask @Electric_City , don't seem to be denting too badly (Compared to mavic 729's). In fact, they hold a tire so well (ie are a bitch to change out tires/tubes) that I've resorted to tubeless set ups to make tire swaps from dry to mud spike easier and less time consuming. I guess tubeless is another one of those things I'm still not all in on either.
http://ridemonkey.com/threads/29er-dh-bike-looks-like.273673/ 29'er trek DH bike.
Pietermeritzburg had guys like gwinn running enduro's with 40's, graves on his yeti whatever it was, and ropeletto on his 29'er enduro. I don't see that being the norm though, if anything I've noticed a trend this year in rougher courses, both on the WC circuit and the local ESC, GES and ProGRT courses. Places where I would feel much more confident on a 26 or 27.5 than I would EVER want to be on a 29'er for.
Yes, I think it is dead and/or dying.
From what I can see where I live:
1) No more DH series. Very little, if any, DH racing.
2) Old school, gnarly trails getting dumbed down (aka bike parked).
3) Everything is enduro bro.
4) I just did a race where we raced on all the DH trails, but on a trail bike.
I don't think the 29er is the future tho. Unless they stop making switchbacks. The dentists can't do switchbacks on 29ers.
From what I can see where I live:
1) No more DH series. Very little, if any, DH racing.
2) Old school, gnarly trails getting dumbed down (aka bike parked).
3) Everything is enduro bro.
4) I just did a race where we raced on all the DH trails, but on a trail bike.
I don't think the 29er is the future tho. Unless they stop making switchbacks. The dentists can't do switchbacks on 29ers.
Can't find the actual story: http://theteamrobot.blogspot.com/2015/07/in-related-story.html
Minnaaarr rode a customized lower linkage because he's tall AF and can take advantage of the stability. Bigger wheels fit more easily in longer stayed bikes. Therefore the transition between mini wheels and dentist bike should be quite smooth with his height. Harder for somebody like Gwin.
All a brand manager really needs to say is "Short chainstays" and a million dentists flock to their black cards. It's not always about being short, but balanced. Norco does a good job with their size specific geometry, but that doesn't compensate for people's preferences as well. I know that I prefer a 17-17.2 chainstay, and that's in the wacky east coasty stuff we have here.
I don't think it's dead, but it is going to be relegated to a much more specialty tool than it has been in the past. Look at areas where DH has been massively popular in the previously, many folks are selling DH bikes in favor of a light 6" bike. Whistler is a prime example, you hear lots of locals saying something similar.
Just because the transition may be easier, doesn't mean it will be better.
I understand the pro's typically are riding a sneaky proto model that is slightly different than the bike you and I get. Just seems that they don't want stupid long chainstays either.
I don't "mind" the 650b, I just wish for people like my kids who are outgrowing their 24's that a nice 26" small or xs would be available, just like it would make sense to make a 29'er DH bike for the dudes that are 6'4 +
At the end of the day I have no control over any of it, so I'll just take it as it comes.
That is the basic misconception many have. We are the customers, so we have control. And as long as someone is buying it, someone else will offer it. Just put your money where your mouth is and don't buy overhyped gimmicks.
You sure?
Go buy a NEW downhill bike, how many 26" options do you have? How about a NEW trail bike? (yes, I know there are still some options, but not a ton of them)
Sure, I have the option of NOT buying a new bike, but.....
Go buy a car (in the US) with a manual trans? Or maybe an SUV or fullsize truck with one....or how about one with out airbags, power windows, cruise control, etc.
Still want a carburated car because you know how to tune, troubleshoot, and repair one, go get a new one if that is what YOU want......
You can only put your money on the product that is offered, if the masses buy into the new shit, sooner or later you will also have to.
I thought the dentists are now back to real men hobbies like hunting famous lions?
I run my Tues now in the long CS mode. Framesize large (Reach 440mm) and I am 190cm. I am already on the waitlist for a works components offset headset. The bike feels definitely more planted and predictable now.
There's a way too flat berm on a groomed trail near my home where my demo-friends hit it normally driftingwith one foot out. I find myself nowadays carving it like a F1 car. Starting far outside, turn inside and exit far outside again. Much faster, more control, less unpredictable drifting.
Cant wait to stretch my front end a little and see how it will affect it.
And no. 8 inch are not dead. Try to ride the rough DH tracks in the alps on a Broduro. It will work, but it won't be fun.
Come on dude...the number of people that still wanted carburetors when fuel injection was finally hashed out...the number of people that want a manual Suburban...really?
I think the reality is that there aren't a lot of people stuck on 26 compared to people that are 650B-curious. And those of you that are die hards are also the kind of people that invest in a turner or other high end frameset that you intend on keeping forever. So how does a company like trek sell you new product? I definitely feel like some companies are forcing your hand (like the switch to 650b everything for DH) and some companies are trying to (boost 148), but customers are speaking with their wallets...
Yup.
You know what else I saw a lot of at that race that I didn't realize I hadn't really seen in years?
Tacoed wheels. Trail bikes, dh bikes......lots of 'em.
It was like 1997 all over again.
I finally got to ride two dh bikes with 650 wheels. It doesn't really count though because they both had enves.
There's a quickness that gets lost on anything that's not a 6ft wide corridor trail, and they do accelerate slower........just like trail bikes. One of them definitely tamed fast chatter a little better but it also had some fun stuff going on in the shock that most people don't have access to.
The fact that so many people say they can't tell a difference just proves that the industry is right. Mountainbikers will buy any damn thing they throw out at us.
There's a quickness that gets lost on anything that's not a 6ft wide corridor trail, and they do accelerate slower........just like trail bikes. One of them definitely tamed fast chatter a little better but it also had some fun stuff going on in the shock that most people don't have access to.
The fact that so many people say they can't tell a difference just proves that the industry is right. Mountainbikers will buy any damn thing they throw out at us.
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I know all sorts. Myself included. I've ordered nearly all of my "new" cars with a manual (except my silverado and tahoe since I couldn't get it)
In my book, anyone who has driven a good car with a manual transmission knows it's much more fun to do so than riding a dumbed down automatic one...
That is what I am doing ATM. If the industry is forcing me out of the first market I buy NOS or second hand. Geometries on the latest generation of 26" bikes were fairly dialed, so nothing to worry about here. Everybody that I know that was seriously into buying new stuff all the time has slowed down, either because they don't believe in the so-called innovations or because they are worried that the new bikes need a season or two to be dialed. Sure, Trek et al. don't care because the big bucks come from the dentists, however these dentists already get suspicious why all the "core" riders, bike mechanics etc. are riding totally outdated and unrideable bikes....and are fast on those.
29" is never gonna take off for DH, because DH already had its taco every wheel phase in the late 90's early 00's. 27.5" will be it.
Says the guy who is buying a bike that is primarily know for its short chainstays. Just saying.
here in the united derps there isn't much in the countryside in terms of employment. so for a lot of us that isn't an option
Step 1: Learn to administrate HP-UX, AIX, Linux, or other obscure enterprise OS.
Step 2: Get hired to perform your duties by a US based company.
Step 3: Telecommute, and be happy!
we had to order our last car straight outta japan because though manual was an option, there were only 2 in the country at the time (and none with the options we were looking for). go outside canada/us and you can find all sorts of unlikely vehicles with standard trannies. slovenly bastards are we.
no but 7" travel bikes are (fsm bless banshee for continuing to make the darkside)
if you reduce it beyond lightweight carbon, excellent geometry, efficient pivot height, a decent rising rate leverage ratio, a nice shock, and exactly the right amount of travel, then yeah, I'm buying it because it has short chainstays.